AN INTERVIEW WITH
Ron Ryan
Ron co-wrote some DC5 songs, and his brother Mick was an original member.
He shares some first-hand insights into the early years of the British
Invasion and the DC5.
(My questions to him are in green; his responses are in silver.)
1.) Ron, first of all, what was your relationship with the early DC5?
Rob, I met the Boys in about 1959/60, as my Brother Mick Ryan was one of the best guitarists
in London at the time, and was much in demand. When the offer to join Dave's Band came in, although it meant hard
work, a lot of travelling, and long gig's, he jumped at it. Even then they were a highly regarded Band, much due
to Mike Smith's singing power, and also the Band played so 'tight'. I used to go with my brother to see them play:
what a Band!! Although I got on with all in group, I got on best with Mike, as we were both singers. And although
I am a little older than him, I must admit I looked up to him. Good Lord, could he power out a song!! And being
from the same back-ground, we had a lot in common, and shared the same taste in music.
2.) Thanks for your role in writing two very unique DC5 songs, "Doo Dah" and
"Mulberry Bush". I thoroughly enjoy both of those. "Mulberry Bush" was a single that was never
released in the US, but still brought the band greater visibility in the UK. "Doo Dah" wound up on the
flip-side of "Do You Love Me" in England, and made it to the first American album, "Glad All Over".
How did you think to write rock songs using childhood "nursery-rhyme" melodies?
What you must take on board is that all, I repeat ALL the songs that ALL the British Bands did in those days were
American. No-one in the UK was writing songs, so a few of us said 'why not?' and tried to write, little knowing
that 150 miles away in Liverpool, John and Paul had the same idea. The hit parade in those day was all Yanks! And
I for one wanted to change that a little. Yes, Doo Dah, and Mulberry Bush were two old songs. I here and now own
up to 'nicking' the idea from a Yank, my Hero, Buddy Holly (he was loved when he toured the UK). He did a song
from a nursery-rhyme, called 'Rock Me My Baby', from 'Hickory-Dickory-Dock'! So mind you, even he 'nicked' a song
idea. (Not to mention 'Not Fade Away' being very Bo Diddley). So even the great 'borrow'!
3.) What songs were the DC5 playing in those pre-Glad-All-Over years?
What songs were they playing? More like what songs were they NOT playing! The Band were
playing (As was my own band) at the USAF Bases, and to do them you had to be good, real good! There was a rating
system: One to Five. Dave's Band was a number One, (while my own band was at number Three). "One" meant
you could do all the Officers Clubs (Three meant other Ranks such as Airman). To be number one, you had to be able
to play anything, and I mean anything. Music to dance to, even Glen Miller type music. I know it's hard to believe,
but they did that! So much for those who said they could not play their instruments!!! You also had to play Pop,
whatever was in the charts, could be Beach-Boys, Buddy Holly, Elvis (Mike could belt out an Elvis song like you
would not believe) and songs like that. Even Country and western ! I am here to tell you they did their share of
that as well, and these were 'Top-Dollar' paying jobs, but you had to be able to 'cut it' to do them. Many times
I went to these Clubs acting as my Brothers 'roadie' to get in, and listened to them for hours and hours. They
were so good, way above most groups at that time.
4.) Well then, please elaborate more on the DC5's early performances.
There were not that many Clubs in London in those early days, so the USAF bases were
the main venues. But the Band did play a few Clubs and a Pub in Enfield (North London) where my Band played as
well. To be honest, they were much too good for Pubs, although they enjoyed playing them and meeting fans, and
they used such Gigs to run in new songs for their main money making Gigs, the Officers Clubs on the Bases. These
USAF Gigs were marathon! You started at nine and played nearly non-stop till one in the morning, some-times longer!
As I say they payed top-Dollar, but you had to earn it, and the boys were no strangers to hard work. WW2 was only
a few
years back, and it took a long time to get the Country back on it's feet, and if you came from the background the
Boys and me came from, we were no strangers to hard work.
It makes me laugh when I read that the Boys 'did not play their instruments' what a crock!
You can't stand on a Stage in front of 200 Yanks who knew and demanded the best for four or five hours and mime!
Backing tracks to aid singers and Bands did not come out till the mid Seventies. Later on, when more Clubs opened
in and around London, the Boys were in big demand, one Club in particular 'The Tottenham Royal' was the 'Big Deal'.
Only the very Best Groups were booked to play there (I could not get there with my Band) and the Boys nearly lived
there! (You ask Mike), they were that popular, and always played to packed houses.
5.) Now as your friendship with the band grew, you actually began suggesting material
for them?
Yes, about that time I started to write, and to suggest songs for them to record. I had
heard a song called 'Twist and Shout' and nagged Dave to record it, but he was not too keen on it. In the end they
did record it, I think just to keep me quiet !! I was so sure it would be a hit, and after a lot of delay they
recorded it, but Brian Poole and the Tremolos also heard it, recorded it, and got it out before Dave's Band. What
a massive hit it was! (ED: It reached #4 in the UK summer of 1963.) That could have been the band's first
number one! Dave asked me to look out for another song, and find it quick!! Two songs I found were 'Do You Love
Me'? and 'Who Do You Love' ? a Bo Diddley song, (what a talent that man is). The Boys liked my first choice best,
and recorded it, (ED: with "Doo Dah" on the back side), and it did very well. (ED: Brian Poole
and the Tremolos also won the race on that one, and captured #1 in the UK charts). Then Mike wrote 'Glad All
Over' and the rest is history.
6.) Ron, take a minute here please to talk about your own band, and your own career.
When we spoke on the phone recently, you dropped some interesting names and experiences.
My Band at the time was the Ron Ryan Combo.
People came and went, but it was always me playing guitar and singing, along with a lead guitar, bass and drums:
so a normal line-up. We did mainly USAF Bases at Airman Clubs, playing Rock such as Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly (my
hero), Elvis etc. We did not set the world on fire but did OK. Then I formed a more professional Band which I called
"the Riot Squad' and if you look it up on the net,
(ED: picture below), you can see a Photo of the Band. I am the one on the extreme left, standing next to
Mitch Mitchell. I gave him his first professional job, and he later went on to become Jimmy Hendrix's drummer,
and what a drummer he was! With the Riot Squad, I wrote and recorded the Bands biggest hit 'Anytime', but our manager
put his name on the song and claimed all the Royalties. I didn't fight it at the time, as I was getting used to
having my songs stolen, and was more interested at the time in playing the big Clubs, and doing big TV shows with
some of my Heroes.
Ron is on the far left.
There was a big Blues thing happening about then, and I did shows with (and met and had
long talks with) Jimmy Reed, John Lee Hooker, and a great character who called himself 'Sonny Boy Williamson'.
We did quite a few shows with him, and I swear to this day he made up every song he sung as he was singing it,
and never sang the same words twice! He used to carry a small suitcase every-where, and in it there was always
two bottles of Jack Daniel's (one for him, and one for us), three 'harps', and his 'Manager' (a Colt 32), which
he kept loaded. As he said, 'if the Club owner did not want to pay, his manager would convince him to part with
the cash' Years later I did a couple of Gigs with another 'Hero', Gene Vincent. He always carried a gun which he
called 'John Henry'. Those were the days! Later on the Name of 'Riot Squad' was 'nicked' (stolen) by a 'Punk Band'.
7.) Now back to the Dave Clark Five. I'm going to ask you a question that's been a burning
issue for some fans for several years. And if you're not comfortable answering, just say so and we'll move on.
But here it is: Did Dave Clark actually play the drums on the DC5 recordings?
Did Dave play drums on the records? YES HE DID!!! Dave by his own admission was no Buddy
Rich, but he could play, and played on most of the records. He did bring a drummer along to play some parts at
rare times, but only because he wanted to be at the control desk. What you must remember is in those days, we used
four-track machines, as that's all we had! And there were no Rock and Roll producers, these were early times, and
Dave knew what he wanted, and made sure he got it! Remember, I was there, I saw with my own eyes what went on,
and seeing that there was only me and the boys there: where were all the freaks who said he did not play? I did
not see them in the Studio! And all the live Shows they did: that's Dave playing, and when The Queen invited them
to Play at Buckingham Palace (there's something not many DC5 Fans know) Dave played the Drums, and when the Boys
took America by storm and played many, many, many live shows in the States, Dave played the drums.
7b) (Rob interrupts) Even the intro on "No Time to Lose"?
Yes Rob, he played the intro to 'No time to lose'. He had to do it quite a few times,
but he got it in the end, though not perfect, (ask any drummer), which goes to prove if a Session drummer had played
it, it would be perfect (listen to it again) I rest my case. (ED: Speaking of "No Time to Lose", Ron
later mentioned that he wrote the words to it. Unlike the USA album, The British EP lists Ron as a co-writer.)
8.) Lets talk about the "British Invasion" in general. What were its historical
roots as viewed from your side of the pond? What sort of culture gave birth to it?
The music really came from the USA! To explain, I must give you a short history lesson.
Back when Mike, me, and the rest of the boy's were born, Britain and the USA were at
War with Germany. We in London were being bombed day and night, and how we ever lived through it all is a mystery,
but we did, and it taught us how to survive! (That's why Mike's such a fighter). We had a lot of Yanks over here,
and you must remember these were really boys of 18 and 19, away from home for the first time in their life, in
a strange land, and they did not know what tomorrow would bring. It's hard to believe what they (and our men) went
through. The Airmen who flew the Bombers had it really hard. They sometimes went on daylight bombing missions,
flying over Germany, trying to dodge heavy guns on the ground, and German fighters in the air, who could fly twice
as fast as them. These German fighters had machine guns in the wings, and 20 mm cannons in the nose, firing explosive
shells, so it was 'slaughter in the air'. The planes that made it back were shot to pieces! The term 'two turning,
and two burning' was often heard, meaning two engines were still working, the other two were on fire! So we took
these Yanks into our homes and into our hearts, and friendships that were made then are still going as I write
this.
I was about five, and quickly learned that if I saw a Yank and said 'got any gum chum'?
I would be rewarded with chewing gum, which we could not buy in the shops. One day, shortly after the war, there
was great excitement on our street. A massive great tank had gotten lost, and stopped just out-side my house! I
was about six or seven, and I rushed outside, and as the top opened I shouted out 'got any gum chum'? To my utter
amazement, the head and shoulders of the Yank who appeared was black! I had never seen a black man before, so I
just stared with shock! He said "Sorry son, no, but how about this?" and he gave me a bar of chocolate,
which was worth more than gold! You just could not get chocolate in those days. I can remember the bar: it was
thin, in squares, and each square had the portrait of a Ladies head in profile. I said, "Thank you sir"
and waved him goodbye. We also had 'food parcels' that came from the ordinary people in the States and in Canada.
These were boxes which contained tins of spam, peaches, sugar, flour, things that we just could not get in the
shops, and what was in the shops was 'on ration', so those food parcels some-times was all that stood between getting
by or not getting by.
With the Americans came their music, which we just loved, and we Lads grew up with it.
When we wanted to make music, we just copied what we listened to: Fat's Domino, the great Little Richard, Elvis,
Carl Perkins, Bill Haley, and later on to my thing, the Blues. So that's our background, and you can now see where
the music came from.
9a.) Now you’ve sent over pictures of some very unique records! One of your DC5 compositions,
“That’s What I Said” was actually an “A” side in England, in 1963. And I notice that the band title says “The Dave
Clark Five” and under it, “Featuring Mike Smith”. Interesting. I love that song: a good rocker with humorous lyrics!
Tell us about that one?
I got the idea for 'That's What I Said' from a Yank at an Air mans Club I knew. He was a cook, and also gave
me a great recipe for US style Bar-b-Que sauce( I love cooking, and food that's why I am the size I am) . He was
talking to another Yank and was complaining about his new shift, and he said 'I need that like I need a hole in
the head' Click! That went into my head and a song was born! That song was 100% mine, words, music, even the ararrangement,
tho' I must admit to 'nicking' the beginning (Mike on the phone) from The Big Bopper's 'Chantilly Lace'.
9b.) You also wrote “Sometimes”. Oliver Reed recorded it (with backing music by Les Reed),
and I see from the number on the record that it was released before “That’s What I Said”. Can you tell us about
that?
Concerning "Sometimes", Dave worked at the time as a 'Extra' (bit parts as you say, not talking, just
background) on Films. With that, he did meet the famous people, and one of them was Oliver Reed, who thought he
could sing (he thought wrong!!) So Dave asked me to write a song for him, and I did, and the record came out in
1962. Rob, I see in a pic on "The Boltons" web-site that you play guitar, so you will be interested how
I wrote the song. I love it, it's so unusual. I wrote it in the key of 'C', but started it off using minor chords,
which give the song that soulful 'longing feel' that only minor chords give as you know. There had been other songs
in the past using minor and major chords, but always major to minor, never the other way round. I was always looking
for a new slant, something to catch people's ears! And if I may say so, it still sounds fresh to this day. Let
me clear one other thing up, as we were asked recently: Mike wrote "Glad All Over" himself, no input
from me what so ever! He 'nicked the title from Carl Perkins, but the rest is pure 100% Smiff. Maybe you can hear
a little bit of "That's What I Said" in it but that's all.
10.) Ron, we've touched on four DC5 songs that have your name on the record label. Are
there other DC5 songs that you had a significant part in writing?
I participated in some other songs, but my name isn’t on the record label. So I really only want to discuss
the ones that I can back up my involvement with hard evidence. God knows what I’ve done, and we’ll leave it at
that.
11.) Very good, Ron, any way you want it. Now back to the extraordinary times that gave
us this music. Some fans assume that Dave or the others were born with a silver spoon, and had inroads to the high
life. Not so?
That's a laugh! As far as I remember, we were all in the same boat, just working class Kids trying to get along
in life. We never asked "What does you Dad do?" or things like that. We took each other at face value.
If Dave for instance was 'born with a silver spoon in his mouth' how came he drove a clapped out old Ford? When
they got better known and started working the USAF bases and the money got better, they lived a little better,
but they worked hard and 'grafted' (a Cockney expression meaning to work very hard). We were very lucky in that
through our love of music, and finding we could make money from doing it, we lived better than Kids who just had
a normal job.
12.) Even though this is supposed to be a DC5-related interview, I must say I can't help
thinking about you guys growing up as children during WW2. Your "time horizon" is so different from my
consumer-oriented generation. Tell us some more about that.
It was hard, but being so young, I just took it as normal that every night there would be the sound of an air-raid
warning, and then there was a droning overhead, and I would here things falling through the air, and then there
would be mighty bangs, and the house would shake. But according to my Mum and Dad, I slept through most of it.
The worse thing was coming home from shopping (that could take hours as there was very little in the shops) and
finding no house! And that happened twice! The first was a hit by a 'Doddle-Bug', a German V1 unmanned plane. The
second was a 109 Fighter plane hit by anti-aircraft fire. The Pilot jumped and was saved, but the plane took out
three houses including ours, so we lived with relatives till we were re-housed. One thing I remember clearly was
that no-one locked their doors, and friends came and went as they pleased. If a Kid was in a strange house, they
would be fed if there was food. Those were wonderful days, in some ways.
13.) Now to the personalities of the band members. What stands out in your memory the
most?
As I said before, I got on very well with Mike, and he is a typical Londoner. He would give the shirt off his back
if you asked for it, nice company. I got on well with the rest mind you. Rick was a very steady, 'both feet on
the ground type of bloke'. Even when the Band got famous and we all got very excited, Rick just blew it off. He
is the type of bloke that if he won a million pounds would say 'that will come in handy' and just carry on. But
Mike was the one I got on with most, as I said before we were both singers, we liked the same US singers and Bands,
and just had a lot in common. It breaks my heart to hear of Mike's accident, and if I could give him a lung, or
half my blood and it would make him better, I would. But Mike is a fighter, as any-one who came through what we
did in the War was and always will be a fighter. Sadly I fell out with Dave, and 'why' is no concern to any-one
but Dave and Me. Then all contact with the Band was blocked, that in 1965. The saddest part was, I was there from
the start. Still that's life, and I have no axe to grind with Mike or the boys, and have made it clear to you Rob,
I wish Mike and his wife all the best. My thoughts and prayers will always be with him.
14.) And what about your brother Mick? Did he stay in music?
My Brother Mick: When he left the DC5, he still played but had a few ideas about starting up a business which
he did, then sold that business, moved into another field of business, and made a huge success of that, then sold
that one for quite a considerable amount of money. He has a very nice (and large) house in one of the best parts
of Enfield (North London), and he retired at 50. He spends most of his time Holidaying, in Spain, France, and the
USA. He still plays guitar and his wife sings, and they do most of their singing like I do in Retierment and Nursing
Homes, spreading happiness
15.) For a final discussion, tell us please what you're doing these days.
Well I used to sing in Clubs and Pubs, but being a non-smoker I found the atmosphere unpleasant,
and so I have concentrated on singing in places that are smoke free. Ever since I started singing I took time out
to go into Retirement and Nursing Homes, singing to people who needed 'cheering up', and found that my singing
did just that. I always get them involved in the singing as I concentrate on the older songs, the songs they know,
and encourage them to 'sing along' with me. The difference I see in the people I sing to is amazing. It seems to
'lift them', but I get a better buzz out of it than they do. It seems in life when I set out to try and help people
I always seem to be helped myself, most strange.
16.) Well thanks so much for taking time to exercise your memory for our benefit. It's
been a long time since 1964. You mentioned that you met your wife Vicky back in '64. Quite a good year for you
then, wasn't it?
Yes 1964 was a good year, but mind you, when you get past 60, EVERY year is a good one! Regards to your Family!
- Ron.
And to yours. Thanks a million for sharing your heart with all of us. And thanks for
your significant part in bringing us music that we all found to be so joyful and meaningful. Even though those
days are gone, your music is still ringing in our ears, and we’re better for it. The bands come and go, but the
songs remain. - RKB, March 2006.
PS - Thanks on behalf of all DC5 fans to Peter Dintino, for hooking Ron up with us! God
bless you, partner.
January 2007 - Ron and I continue to chat about once a month, and share music with each
other. He recently sent the classic pictures below. The first shot: the early 1962 Dave Clark Five, with Mick Ryan
playing guitar and Stan Saxon singing. The second shot: Ron's band, same time frame. And that's Ron, center stage..
